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USCA1 - Alternatives to fossil fuels
| We need alternatives to fossil fuels. | |
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Description
Please watch this report by Top Gear UK on the answer to oil.
Arguments
So long as we rely on oil and gas, we also threaten our national security. Reliance on oil and gas puts us at the mercy of OPEC. We are more likely to prop up foreign dictators or become entangled in wars that are about our energy needs rather than our long-term, strategic interests. And when we do wage war, we put our servicemen and women at risk: about 80% of convoys in Afghanistan are associated with fuel delivery, and there were 1,100 attacks on these convoys in 2010 alone.
Source: elizabethwarren.com
The simple fact is that coal and oil will be part of our energy mix for years to come. But alternative energy sources like wind and solar can also play a role in creating a reliable, balanced energy mix that reduces our dependence on foreign energy sources.
Source: heidifornorthdakota.com
We need to start switching to hydrogen cars to slow down the "supposed" depletion of oil. Gas also needs competition to control price fixing and charging high rates at the pump.
Yes, and we also need to engender pipeline from Canada and tap into what is right here in the US. There is enough oil to last us over 200 yrs until then we can come up with other sources. Then we would be dependent on anyone.
In terms of technologies to achieve the goal:
Locales where Solar PV is cost effective should mandate all new construction use Solar PV as part of the building code.
Many of the "arguments" list technologies that should be developed to replace fossil fuels. Along those lines, we should list carbon fiber to build strong, safe, yet lightweight and fuel efficient automobiles.
We need to decentralize the production of energy. There are hundreds of ways we can offset the costs of fossil fuels. Solar is only beginning to come into its own, but has saved millions of people billions of dollars already. Personal energy production can be done in a way that fits the geography of a home. On some homes a small solar array and a form of a wind catcher that would act as a windmill, combined, could generate enough electricity to reduce fossil fuel consumption by a substantial amount if many, many of us are doing it. There are some who use very little electricity and they would sell theirs back to the grid. That would help. There are times when homes consume little energy, and that is when prime collection of energy from the sun takes place. Central energy production would still be essential but if we can progress with energy as we have with communications our solar collection capabilities will improve and become more affordable. We have to start now, we are losing time. We will know we are a truly civilized society when we are no longer using coal.
One way to encourage residential production in alternatives, is to require power companies to buy back excess generation while at the same time, providing a passive income for the homeowner or business. As it stands now, the best you can do is get your electric bill to $0. If you've made excess power that month ....... the power company gets it for free.
In Germany, the public is paid for their excess generation. Check out the boom this policy help create there:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/dylan-ratigan-show/47925054#47925054
The Performance of PV in Germany
http://www.sma.de/en/company/pv-electricity-produced-in-germany.html
In Germany, the public is paid for their excess generation. Check out the boom this policy help create there:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/dylan-ratigan-show/47925054#47925054
The Performance of PV in Germany
http://www.sma.de/en/company/pv-electricity-produced-in-germany.html
What's the key to using alternative energy, like solar and wind? Storage. So we can have power on tap even when the sun's not out and the wind's not blowing. In this accessible, inspiring talk, Donald Sadoway takes to the blackboard to show us the future of large-scale batteries that store renewable energy. As he says: "We need to think about the problem differently. We need to think big. We need to think cheap."
Donald Sadoway is working on a battery miracle -- an inexpensive, incredibly efficient, three-layered battery using “liquid metal."
The Missing Link to Renewable Energy (ted.com)
The problem at the heart of many sustainable-energy systems: How to store power so it can be delivered to the grid all the time, day and night, even when the wind's not blowing and the sun's not shining? At MIT, Donald Sadoway has been working on a grid-size battery system that stores energy using a three-layer liquid-metal core. With help from fans like Bill Gates, Sadoway and two of his students have spun off the Liquid Metals Battery Corporation (LMBC) to bring the battery to market.
"How do we attack important problems? Pose the right question." - Donald Sadoway
Donald Sadoway is working on a battery miracle -- an inexpensive, incredibly efficient, three-layered battery using “liquid metal."
The Missing Link to Renewable Energy (ted.com)
The problem at the heart of many sustainable-energy systems: How to store power so it can be delivered to the grid all the time, day and night, even when the wind's not blowing and the sun's not shining? At MIT, Donald Sadoway has been working on a grid-size battery system that stores energy using a three-layer liquid-metal core. With help from fans like Bill Gates, Sadoway and two of his students have spun off the Liquid Metals Battery Corporation (LMBC) to bring the battery to market.
"How do we attack important problems? Pose the right question." - Donald Sadoway
Counterarguments
A hydrogen fuel system would be very expensive. It's not clear that it would have any advantages over other carbon neutral solutions that are much further along. Also, it still takes energy to make hydrogen - there is no hydrogen fairy!
This could be worth revisiting if direct solar hydrolysis become practical. But it's more likely that other things like fuel from algae will win, and would require a lot less $$$ on the delivery and storage end. The government should invest heavily in research for all of these technologies, and then let the market decide.
We need alternatives to carbon fuels. All carbon fuels produce CO2. And the market has an incredibly bad record of choosing dirty fuels. Nothing comes for free and decreasing carbon emissions will cost money.
This should not be a policy issue. The government is sure to choose the least efficient type of fuel and way of using it. Like the alcohol from corn, which is uneconomical to produce but is heavily subsidized.
What could be a policy issue is taxing emissions and import of oil; energy prices will go up (as will happen anyway with depletion of supply) and the market will find the best technology available at that time.
Our country currently runs on fossil fuels. I don't know anyone with a windmill or a solar panel that is running their cars. It is also a very bad idea to not use all of the energy we have at a time when our country is near bankrupt. The president voicing global warming hysteria has gone to war with oil, natural gas, and coal. The problem is those things work, all this other stuff will not work for us or be much too expensive and in the short run could make the United States a third world nation; because we are choosing to go for solutions that will drive up fuel and energy cost to the point that Americans and American companies will not be able to economically to drive. Of course that was one Obama's objectives: to drive up gas prices radically, so that we would not notice the huge expense of the so-called wind and solar alternatives. Going for these alternatives instead of accessing our abundance of oil, natural gas, and coal, will shutdown the country with extremely high gas and energy cost, kill 10's of millions of jobs, make us a third world country... I can understand long range research into more efficient and more affordable energy sources, but at this time we don't have those technologies, or the infrastructure. We need to go with what works and what gets America back to work.
Is hydrogen very combustible? Will these cars blow up?
11 Topics
Discussion
started
by GregOrr
on Nov 25
We shouldn't burn up every last drop of oil
LP (2 replies)
Nice stats ! What is your point? What are they relative 2 ? This administration does not want us to take advantage of our natural resources.If the did, we could become free of foriegn oil.But 4 now we take money from our pockets and send it to countries where the words HUMAN RIGHTS are not part of their vocabulary. You know the places where girls cant go to school,women can't leave the house without a male escort. Females cant drive and my favorite is stoneing women to death for susspect adultry.
The Performance of PV in Germany (5 replies)
@golyadkin There are a variety of business models for solar. A common model is for the homeowner to purchase and install solar panels. However, in some locales, the utility company will purchase and install solar panels on your home and then sell you the resulting electricity at a lower, fixed rate.
The German model is a fascinating model. There is some debate as to whether or not they installed more solar PV than is appropriate. The installed PV does seem to have vaulted them into a world-leadership position in terms of wafer, cell, and panel manufacturing; but there doesn't seem to be sufficiently high barriers to entry to keep the Chinese from invading the market.
However, in any event, guaranteeing a return on investment for this highly promising global technology is a small research investment at current rates of solar PV use.
Batteries are not the Key (2 replies)
Localized outages are not important over a continent sized grid. When one small locality experiences a drop in the wind or a cloud over the sun, there are multiple distant localities that have an excess of energy that flows into the localized outage. There is not someone experiencing the outage.
The argument is that developing battery technology is "key". I'm stating that battery technology is not yet "key". In 15 to 20 years we may need battery technology. We may also find that electric cars make up most of the necessary storage technology delaying the need for new battery technology another 15 to 20 years.
There's a lot we can do now with renewable energy; we don't have to wait for battery technology to become available.
Why Not Use "Our Own Oil?" Instead Of Switching WHOLE System (8 replies)
We need to reject the drill-baby-drill hysteria. Wind power is not more expensive than coal-fired power plants once you factor in just some of the external costs. Like health costs. At a time of economic uncertainty, we need to increase the number of options available to us, especially when they cost less.
Solar power is not "much much too expensive". Solar power is in its infancy, and there are many niches where solar power makes sound economic sense. As we expand its uses in existing appropriate niches, mass production will further decrease costs. Solar power is the only current technology that can potentially produce electricity for free. We currently install shingles or another roofing material on each house we build. Installing a similar product that happens to produce electricity as a side effect has fairly similar manufacturing, transportation, and installation costs.
Solar and wind will not phase in over night. We have plenty of time to switch over our car, truck, and commercial vehicle fleet to run on.
Coal power is a huge health risk in addition to being an environmental catastrophe. We need to shut this down as fast as we can. There is such a small amount of American oil to make it not worth the environmental risks. For better or worse, we will continue to use natural gas and nuclear for quite some time.
started
by Abe
on Nov 5
Energy
We do need alternatives.We need alternatives that don't kill the middle class wallet. We need to be free of imported energy. Some of our polititions and there followers want to stop energy independence because if this is achieved then "global redistribution" will take a major hit. Money from your paycheck via the purchase of petro products would no longer wind up in global pockets.Many of these fund sponser dispicable goverments.
started
by steveh721
on Jul 30
RE: Is hydrogen very combustible? Will these cars blow up?
Hydrogen is quite combustible, and it burns clean. The volatile explosive image of hydrogen been propagated by the Hindenburg disaster in 1937. The cause of the fire was not hydrogen--it would be no different than throwing gas on an already burning fire. Hydrogen has also been hyped and misrepresented by Hollywood (picture Arnold S. using his hydrogen power pack as a bomb). Not really. In fact, gasoline is more explosive than hydrogen, but gas has a higher ignition temperature. Making hydrogen safe as a fuel stored in a car tank was the big issue, not explosiveness per se. This was solved for cars depending on the method and company for 6 - 15 years (see Daimler, BMW, and others).
The larger problem is distribution of hydrogen--there's no pipe infrastructure (like for Natural Gas), virtually no hydrogen gas stations, etc.
My opinion is that we need point-of-use solar generation and/or generation while the car is parked. So much to say, so few characters remaining...
started
by gtrorr
on May 19
I agree to any renewable energy.
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IS hydrogen very combustible..?